Joan Blades: Do you have politically diverse friends? What do you talk about with them? I'm a progressive; I live in a town full of progressives, and 15 years ago, I didn't have any conservative friends. Now I have a wonderful mix of friends, and they include John.
﻿琼·布雷兹：你有政见不同的朋友吗？ 你会跟他们聊些什么？ 我是一个进步派， 我生活的地方全是进步派， 15年前，我的朋友中 没有一个是保守党。 而现在我的朋友各种各样， 包括约翰。
John Gable: I am not a progressive. I'm a Republican who grew up in a Republican family in the conservative South, and even worked in Republican politics, locally and at the national level. But the last 24 years, I've been in technology and living in a very progressive area. So I have a lot of progressive friends, including Joan.
约翰·盖博：我不是进步派。 我是共和党人， 出生在一个共和党家庭， 来自保守的南方， 甚至一直在共和党做事， 之前在老家，后来到了全国级别。 但在过去的24年间， 我从事技术工作， 生活在进步派地区。 因此我有许多进步派的朋友， 包括琼。
JB: I was born in Berkeley, California, a notoriously progressive college town. And I live there now. In 1998, six months into the Monica Lewinsky-Clinton impeachment scandal, I helped cofound MoveOn.org with a one-sentence petition: "Congress must immediately censure the president and move on to pressing issues facing the nation." Now, that was actually a very unifying petition in many ways. You could love Clinton or hate Clinton and agree that the best thing for the country was to move on.
JB：我出生在加州的伯克利， 众所周知，那里是 进步主义盛行的大学城。 我现在也住在那儿。 1998年，莱温斯基和克林顿的丑闻 进行到第6个月。 我参与共建了MoveOn.org网站， 有一句请愿的话： “国会必须立即谴责总统， 并转而处理国家面临的 更紧迫问题。” 从很多方面来看， 那是一句非常有凝聚力的谴责。 无论你对克林顿是爱是恨， 都会认同，对于国家而言， 最好的方法就是继续前进。
As the leader of MoveOn, I saw the polarization just continue. And I found myself wondering why I saw things so differently than many people in other parts of the country. So in 2005, when I had an opportunity to get together with grassroots leaders across the political divide, I grabbed it. And I became friends with a lot of people I never had a chance to talk to before. And that included leadership in the Christian Coalition, often seen as on the right the way MoveOn is seen as on the left. And this lead to me showing up on Capitol Hill with one of the Christian Coalition leaders, my friend, to lobby for net neutrality. That was powerful. We turned heads. So this work was transformational for me. And I found myself wondering: How could vast numbers of people have the opportunity to really connect with people that have very different views?
作为MoveOn的领头人， 我看到两极分化在持续。 我不禁在想， 为什么我看待事情的方式， 跟这个国家其他地方的人会不一样。 于是在2005年，当我有机会 接触一些草根领袖 我们政见不同， 我抓住了这个机会。 我跟很多人成为了朋友， 之前可能都没有机会说话。 包括基督徒联盟的领导层， 他们通常被认为是右派， 而MoveON被认为是左派。 于是我去了国会山， 跟基督徒联盟的一个领导人， 他是我朋友， 一起游说关于网络中立的问题。 非常有效。 我们扭转了局势。 这件事给我带来了巨大的转变。 我开始思考： 如何才能让大众有机会 去跟那些与自己有不同观点的人 真正建立联系？
JG: I was born Oneida, Tennessee, right across the state border from a small coal mining town, Stearns, Kentucky. And I lived there for the first few years of my life, before moving to another small town, Frankfort, Kentucky. Basically, I grew up in small-town America, conservative at its heart. Now, Stearns and Berkeley -- they're a little different.
JG：我出生在田纳西州的奥奈达， 穿过州界线，有一个产煤的小镇， 肯塔基州的斯特恩斯。 我出生后头几年都在那儿生活， 后来我又搬到了另一个小镇， 肯塔基州的法兰克福。 基本上我是在美国的小镇长大的， 那里以保守著称。 当然，斯特恩斯跟伯克利， 还是有那么一点点区别的。
(Laughter)
（笑声）
So in the '90s I moved out west to a progressive area to work in technology -- worked at Microsoft, worked at Netscape. I actually became the product manager lead for Netscape Navigator, the first popular web browser. Now in the early days of the internet, we were just moved and inspired by a vision: when we're connected to all these different people around the world and all these different ideas, we'll be able to make great decisions, and we'll be able to appreciate each other for the beautiful diversity that the whole world has to offer. Now I also, 20 years ago, gave a speech saying it might not work out that way, that we might actually be trained to discriminate against each other in new ways.
90年代我搬到了西部， 进步主义的地区， 在技术行业工作， 在微软，在网景。 后来做了网景导航的 产品经理负责人， 网景导航是第一款主流的浏览器。 在因特网发展早期， 我们都被一个愿景激励和打动： 当我们可以将全世界不同的人， 不同的想法都连接起来的时候， 我们就能做出伟大的决定， 就能对世界的多姿多彩 心怀感恩之心。 20年前，我还进行过一次演讲， 说事情可能并不会这样发展， 我们可能会被训练用新的方法 来区别对待对方。
So what happened? It's not like we just woke up one day and decided to hate each other more. Here's what happened. There's just too much noise -- too many people, too many ideas -- so we use technology to filter it out a little bit. And what happens? It lets in ideas I already agree with. It lets in the popular ideas, it lets in people just like me who think just like me. That sounds kind of good, right? Well, not necessarily, because two very scary things happen when we have such narrow worldviews. First, we become more extreme in our beliefs. Second, we become less tolerant of anybody who's different than we are. Does this sound familiar? Does this sound like modern America? The modern world?
为什么会这样？ 并不是说我们某天醒来， 一拍脑袋决定更加恨彼此。 情况是这样的。 只不过有太多杂音，太多的人， 太多的主意， 我们要利用技术过滤掉一些。 结果会怎样呢？ 它会让我已经认同的观点进入。 让最主流的观点进入， 让跟我类似的人， 跟我思维方式相同的人进入。 听起来很不错，对吗？ 然而并不一定， 因为我们的世界观如此狭隘的话， 会发生2件很可怕的事情。 首先，我们对自己所相信的事 会变得偏激。 其次，我们对于跟自己不同的人 会越来越不宽容。 听起来是不是有点熟悉？ 这还是现代的美国？现代的世界吗？
Well, the good news is that technology is changing, and it could change for the better. And that's, in fact, why I started AllSides.com -- to create technologies and services to free us from these filter bubbles. The very first thing we did was create technology that identifies bias, so we could show different perspectives side by side to free us from the filter bubbles of news media. And then I met Joan.
但好消息是，技术在变化， 向着好的方向变化。 这就是我创办AllSides.com的原因， 提供技术和服务， 来打破这些过滤气泡。 我们首先发明了一项技术， 来分辨各种倾向， 把不同的观点放在一起展示， 帮我们打破新媒体的过滤气泡。 后来我遇到了琼。
JB: So I met John outside of Washington, DC, with an idealistic group of cross-partisan bridge builders, and we wanted to re-weave the fabric of our communities. We believe that our differences can be a strength, that our values can be complimentary and that we have to overcome the fight so that we can honor everyone's values and not lose any of our own. I went for this wonderful walk with John, where I started learning about the work he was doing to pierce the filter bubble. It was powerful; it was brilliant. Living in separate narratives is not good. We can't even have a conversation or do collaborative problem-solving when we don't share the same facts.
JB：我是在华盛顿郊外遇到的约翰， 他跟一群理想主义者在一起， 希望搭建跨党派交流的桥梁， 我们都希望重塑社区的结构。 我们相信，我们的不同 能成为一种力量， 我们的价值观都值得赞美， 我们要终结对抗， 才能尊重彼此的价值观， 同时也不必放弃自己的价值观。 我跟约翰边走边聊，很开心， 我开始了解他所做的事情， 打破信息过滤的气泡。 很有力量， 天才的想法。 生活在孤立的舆论中并不好。 如果我们不分享同一件事， 我们甚至无法进行对话， 或者合作来解决问题。
JG: So one thing you take away from today is if Joan Blades asks you to go on a walk, go on that walk.
JG：所以今天学到的一件事就是， 如果琼·布雷兹叫你去散步， 你一定要去。
(Laughter)
（笑声）
It changed things. It really changed the way I was thinking about things. To free ourselves from the filter bubbles, we can't just think about information filter bubbles, but also relationship and social filter bubbles. You see, we human beings -- we're not nearly as smart as we think we are. We don't generally make decisions intellectually. We make them emotionally, intuitively, and then we use our big old brains to rationalize anything we want to rationalize. We're not really like Vulcans like Mr. Spock, we're more like bold cowboys like Captain Kirk, or passionate idealists like Dr. McCoy. OK, for those of y'all who prefer the new "Star Trek" crew, here you go.
这真的带来了改变， 改变了我思考问题的方式。 把我们从过滤气泡中解救出来， 除了信息过滤气泡， 还有人际关系和社交的过滤气泡。 我们人类，并没有 自认为的那么聪明。 我们大部分时间 都不会理智地做决定。 而是凭感觉，凭直觉， 然后用我们又大又老的大脑， 为所有事情找一个合理的解释。 我们不像瓦肯人，不像史波克先生， 而更像柯克船长那样的冒失牛仔， 或者像麦科伊博士那样 充满激情的理想主义者。 好吧，知道你们这些人更喜欢 新《星际迷航》的船员， 满足你们。
(Laughter)
（笑声）
JB: Don't forget the strong women!
JB：别忘了坚强的女性们！
JG: Come on, strong women. OK.
JG：好吧，坚强的女性们。来了。
JB: All right.
JB：好的。
John and I are both "Star Trek" fans. What's not to love about a future with that kind of optimism?
约翰和我都是《星际迷航》的粉丝。 谁会不爱那么乐观的未来呢？
JG: And having a good future in mind is a big deal -- very important. And understanding what the problem is is very important. But we have to do something. So what do we do? It's actually not that hard. We have to add diversity to our lives -- not just information, but relationship diversity. And by diversity, I mean big "D" diversity, not just racial and gender, which are very important, but also ... diversity of age, like young and old; rural and urban; liberal and conservative; in the US, Democrat and Republican. Now, one of the great examples of somebody freeing themselves from their filter bubbles and getting a more diverse life is, once again, next to me -- Joan.
JG：对未来充满憧憬 是一件大事，非常重要。 知道问题出在哪儿，也非常重要。 但是我们必须要做点什么。 我们要怎么做呢？ 其实也没那么难。 我们要增加生活的多样性， 不仅仅是信息的多样性， 还有人际关系。 我说的多样性， 本身也是非常“多样”的， 不仅在种族和性别方面， 这2者当然非常重要， 但还包括， 年龄的多样性， 比如年轻的和年老的， 农村的和城市的， 自由的和保守的， 就美国而言， 也就是民主党人和共和党人。 我这儿有一个非常好的例子， 她顺利打破了自己的过滤气泡， 让自己的生活更加多样化， 还是坐在我身边的这位，琼！
JB: So the question is: Who among you has had relationships lost or harmed due to differences in politics, religion or whatever? Raise your hands. Yeah. This year I have talked to so many people that have experienced that kind of loss. I've seen tears well up in people's eyes as they talk about family members from whom they're estranged.
JB：问大家一个问题， 你们当中有谁，因为政治观点、 宗教信仰或者其他观点的不同， 而导致关系受损甚至终结？ 请举一下手。 好吧。 近一年来我跟许多人交流过， 他们都有过类似的经历。 谈起自己形同陌路的家人， 他们眼里噙满了泪水。
Living Room Conversations were designed to begin to heal political and personal differences. They're simple conversations where two friends with different viewpoints each invite two friends for structured conversation, where everyone's agreed to some simple ground rules: curiosity, listening, respect, taking turns -- everything we learned in kindergarten, right? Really easy. So by the time you're talking about the topic you've agreed to talk about, you actually have the sense that, "You know, I kind of like this person," and you listen to each other differently. That's kind of a human condition; we listen differently to people we care about. And then there's reflection and possibly next steps. This is a deep listening practice; it's never a debate. And that's incredibly powerful. These conversations in our own living rooms with people who have different viewpoints are an incredible adventure. We rediscover that we can respect and even love people that are different from us. And it's powerful.
“起居室对话”设计的初衷 是为了弥合政治和个性上的不同。 形式很简单， 2个持有不同观点的朋友， 各自再邀请2位朋友， 来进行交谈， 每个人都遵守几项基本原则： 好奇，倾听，尊重，轮流发言， 这些是我们在幼儿园 就学会了的，对吗？ 非常简单。 你们讨论着事先定好的话题， 随着交流的继续， 你慢慢感觉到， “其实，我还挺喜欢这个人的，” 于是你倾听的方式都改变了。 这就是人类的特点， 对于自己在乎的人， 我们会更愿意倾听。 然后你可能有新的想法， 交谈会继续下去。 这就是深度倾听的一个实践， 并不是要辩论什么。 难以置信的有效。 这些交谈就发生在 我们自己家的起居室， 交谈对象是拥有不同观点的人， 这真的是一场不可思议的冒险。 我们发现，对于跟我们不同的人， 我们也可以尊重，甚至可以去爱。 非常有力量。
JG: So, what are you curious about?
JG：那么，你们对什么感到好奇？
JB: What's the conversation you yearn to have?
JB：你们渴望进行一场 什么样的对话？
JG: Let's do this together. Together.
JG：我们一起努力吧。 一起努力。
JB: Yes.
JB：好的！
(Laughter)
（笑声）
(Applause)
（掌声）
JB and JG: Thank you.
JB&amp;JG：谢谢大家。